One subject we study in psychology is mental disorders. The concept of mental disorders is very complexed. What is a disorder? What does it meant to be in sane? What types of disorders exist? What is the difference between schizophrenia and personality disorders? List goes on and on... We will be going into depth later... However, reading Chapter 5: Coldest Heart is going to make you question the concept of nature and nurture and the role is has on what we call anti-social personality disorder. What causes someone to become cold hearted? Are we born that way? In this chapter, think about all kinds of issues to talk about... Are some people born to kill? Was the fact that Leon was a fussy and difficult baby for mom, make it sound like he would turn out the way he did? Is it our environment and experiences that will determine our likely hood to kill or not kill? Should a 16 year old be up for death penalty? Is Leon a victim in any way? Who makes you more angry? Leon? Mom? Dad? Is there any hope? I am going to attach an article for you to read after this chapter... It serves the purpose for you to understand that not all anti- socials will kill, but to understand that many live among us and characteristics of an anti- social.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath
I would like you to respond about what you find most interesting about both the chapter and the article. I would like you to ask questions that your classmates may answer about your posts. You do NOT have to do a detail summary about the chapter. Do a summary about what you learned and what you found most interesting. Then ask a few questions that come to your mind about the chapter and article.
Leon had murdered two girls and horrifyingly raped their dead bodies after. This sociopath was up for the death penalty and Perry was to interview him and give his conclusions for a increasingly fair trial.
ReplyDeleteAll of this, both the chapter and the article, appall me. I just can not imagine anyone having no remorse or compassion whatsoever. Like when Leon was asked what he would do differently, and he said he would have thrown away the bloody boots in order to not get caught. (pg 106). The extensive selfishness that comes from him and all other sociopaths is boundless. But despite this aspect, I personally don't believe that anyone, mental disorder or not, should be assigned the death penalty. I believe that we don't have the right to take away a life, but that also does not in any way justify their actions. After all, in the end, they wouldn't get to live with what they had done. I also think nurture has a lot more effect than nature. Therefore, I am angry at mostly everyone in the story. How could his mom leave him alone for all those days and set him up for being antisocial and more? But ultimately Leon was the one who did the stabbing...
And as for Leon being the victim, I am torn. What does everyone else think? I think he mostly isn't but partially is. He is the victim due to the decisions his mom made that were so very damaging to his development, that were 100% out of his control. In that small aspect, he is a victim. But the rest falls on his shoulders. He was the one who made all those choices to hurt people and ultimately kill two. And somewhere in the chapter, I believe Perry said that he was not insane because he knew it was wrong. So therefore it falls on him.
The article also appalled me, and made me realize all sociopaths do not result to killing as a completed action, but want to nonetheless. It also struck me that several are living in communities... This is another one of my thoughts: Given our growing narcissistic society, focusing on yourself, these hidden and non-killing sociopaths blend in all the better...
Overall, I think you are not born to kill, and your environment mostly affects who you become. Sadly, this is mostly true due to how sociopaths grow up...
I think it is really terrible that his mother left him home alone. I agree that you are not born to kill and that the way your are raised and how you grow up effects your fight or flight and your decision making skills immensely. It's strange to know that everyone thinks about things differently. I'm not very surprised that sociopaths are everywhere. Everyone is different in thinking just like there are good and bad people in the world.
DeleteI also could not believe that Leon had no remorse for what he had done. I feel like if his mother would have given him more love and care when he was young he wouldn't have ended up the way he is. I also am not totally sure if he is the victim. He was wrong in killing the girls, but he did know it was wrong. So I guess he is aware of what he has done and is to blame for his actions.
DeleteIt is just amazing that the way you are raised is how you are going to end up as you grow older. If you receive no love you will never learn what love is and how to express it to other people just as Leon did.
DeleteI agree that only in a small way is he the victim. He knew what he did was wrong, he can't blame it solely on how he was raised. Leon was able to rationally think through what he was doing, he just simply did not care.
DeleteIs it a good or bad thing that these non-killing and crime-committing sociopaths blend into our society? I don't think that it is necessarily a bad thing because these people aren't doing anything wrong, they don't act on any of these violent thoughts. And if what was present in their personalities was manipulative and if it was bad enough, we'd avoid it anyway.
Deletenon-crime-committing***
DeleteThe story and the article made my jaw drop. It is unbelievable to me the way people think and justify things and actions. Leon was only 16 years old when he murdered and raped two young girls for no apparent reason. Growing up in a stable, safe and loving home like most people I know, murder and rape or even manipulation is something they don't praise. Leon was left alone as a child. His mother was a very unfit mother, her family basically raised her first child without her help at all. The story hints that she has some sort of mental issue. When the family moves away from all of their relatives, the mother has no idea how to care for a baby who needs loving attention when crying or fussy, so she leaves him alone in the apartment with no one to come to his cries when he needed to be changed or to be fed. It is extremely heart breaking. As I was reading this story I grew very angry at the mother the most out of anyone. I never even heard of someone leaving an infant alone for hours. I do think that Leon is a victim in a way. He never had anyone there for him growing up, he had to fend for himself, him against the world. He didn't learn how to trust, love or have sympathy. He is also not the victim because he knew what he did to those girls was wrong. I think that's the difference between someone who is insane and someone who is a sociopath. The ones who are insane don't know the right from wrong, the sociopaths are almost fully aware. They both would like to kill or harm, but most sociopaths don't carry out the murder, only few who "snap". I honestly don't think there is a lot of hope for Leon since most of the damage was done so young. I don't think that him being fussy caused him to be a sociopath or a killer, but that neglect he received made the fussing worse and the mother just chose to neglect. The article was real eye opener as well. It's so weird knowing that I could be friends with a sociopath and not even know it. It's not like sociopaths are bad people or anything, it's just that their brains are wired differently so they think differently then "normal" people. What causes people to become sociopaths? What is the drive to kill? Can any of these be reversed?
ReplyDeleteThe mother made me really mad as I was reading the story too. I don't understand how she could leave her child all alone for hours everyday. I also do not think there is much hope for him. If his mother would have given him the love he needed, I believe he would have not committed the crime.
DeleteIt is so scary knowing that someone in your everyday life could be a sociopath and have thoughts on killing someone! If I did know a friend who was one I'm not sure how I would act around them..Is kind of bad to think like that? It's hard to think what you would do if you knew.
DeleteThe mother was mentally unstable herself, as Dr. Perry mentioned. She had no help like she did with her first born. I don't think it's fair to blame her completely
DeleteOverall, the whole situation made me appalled and angry. However, the mom made me upset as well. Renee is right in saying we can't blame her completely, but also, in my opinion, when you are a mom, it's your responsibility to make choices that are in the best interest of the baby.
DeleteWhen I started reading this chapter I could not believe what Leon had done. He raped and killed to young innocent girls. The worst part was that he did not even feel bad for what he had done. As I learned in the chapter and the article, sociopaths do not have much feelings. It's weird to think that some people can stay so calm in stressful situations. What happens to the brain to make a person so cold? Leon's mother would leave him alone at home for hours when he was a baby. I do not understand how any mother would be able to leave their newborn child at home alone and not even think that that may be wrong. I believe that things could have gone differently for Leon if his mother would have shown him more love. She could have taken him with her and his little brother instead of leaving him alone. Maybe he would still have become a sociopath, but maybe he would have not raped and killed the young girls, and would not be sitting in jail. I'm not sure if giving him the death penalty would really affect him. He didn't seem to be affected by killing the girls so I believe him hearing he was going to die would maybe make him laugh and not phase him. I feel like if he was released, he would kill again because he could get angry and snap into a different person again. Its crazy to think that there are sociopaths around us in our lives, but we don't know it. Not all are bad and want to kill, but there are some out there that do. I think its interesting that so many have normal lives and make a big impact in their communities, and people don't even know about who they are. It's also interesting that people are so affected by what happens when they are small, and that having loving family and friends can help you develop right. I don't think there is much hope for Leon now. I feel like his brain has develop in a certain way where he does not care what other people tell him, and that he will not change. He may trick people into thinking that he is different, but I think there will always be that part of him that's broken. I do not believe all sociopaths are like Leon. Could his mother be the reason why he has turned out the way he has? What made him want to kill the girls? Can people like Leon be helped after they have been so damaged?
ReplyDeleteI very much believe that his mother is the reason that Leon turned out this way. Had she always been around to show care to Leon, Leon may very well be a different man today. I think he wanted to kill the girls just because of the alcohol in his system. It made him come up with weird ideas and he acted on them without thinking of the consequences. I think Leon will be permanently damaged
DeleteI believe in some cases people can be helped and brought to a more stable mind set but I mostly think in most cases they are long gone and cant get much help.
DeleteI agree, it's hard to believe that someone that far in their life can change. And I also believe it was his mothers fault that he became the way he is. Like Andrea said, maybe he would still have become a sociopath, but maybe he would have not raped and killed the young girls, and would not be sitting in jail. He could have possible got help for his problem if his mother cared for him more.
DeleteI think Leon is permanently damaged and his mother had a lot to do with him turning into a sociopath. I agree that if she had given him more love, he may still be a sociopath, but might not have killed the girls.
DeleteI think his mother never being there for him is what caused him so become so cold. He wanted to kill the girls because they didn't give him what he wanted, and he didn't think of them as people. I don't think there is any help for people like Leon.
DeleteI disagree that the mother can be blamed for the entire thing...
DeleteMany children who are born into far worse circumstances have become good, productive people. Dr. Perry even explained the mother wasn't the most intelligent (by far), and her family had a very large part in raising her first son. Did her parenting have something to do with Leon's horrible behavior? Probably, but I think genetics had more to do with Leon's outcome.
The story and the article really opened my eyes on how some people just do not care and have no compassion towards anyone but themselves. It amazes me on how someone could actually feel like that. In the story Leon was just a young man who killed and raped two innocent little girls in there apartment. When people hear about these kind of things, they always wonder what was going through there head and how could they ever do that. Or at lease that is what I think. Leon was a child who was neglected and had no loving parents to care for him. Before Leon was born his father, mother, and brother lived near a bunch of family members. His mother was very unfit, and in the book it was hinted that she had some kind of mental illness, so she was not able to properly care for a newborn baby. When Leon's older brother was born, there mother would give the baby to a family member because she could not take the crying for more than a little bit. The family basically raised the child rather than just helping out. A few years later the little family had to move away due to work. Soon Leon was born and his mother had no idea how to care for a baby without the help of the family by her side, so she leaves him home alone almost all day for no one to come and tend to his crying needs and fussiness. I just can not believe a mother would ever do that to her baby. I know she had a mental illness but the father should have at least found out about this and talked to his wife about doing the horrible thing she was doing. Without the comfort of a parents, and nurture of a parent the baby will not develop properly and that is what happened to Leon. He never learned how to love and care about someone because of the neglect his mother had put upon him as an infant. Throughout the chapter I became angry mainly at the mom. Dad was at work and all she had to do was stay home and care for her child. Leon is a victim in some way. He was a helpless baby who had no idea how to love or care, he had to be shown how to do that in order to grow properly and he just didn't get that. But yet he was not a victim. He knew what he did to those girls was wrong so why did he do it? There is no hope for Leon. I think the damage was done to early for him to ever come around and be a caring and loving person. But on the other hand the girl from the article was a sociopath just like Leon but did not kill people. She has a good life and even though they have the same thoughts on killing she has never killed anyone. She has feelings for people still unlike Leon. It was kind of scary reading the article and thinking that someone you are very close to might be a sociopath and have urges to hurt or possibly kill you. It is just baffling to think about that. What triggers the urge to kill someone? Does gender make the anger and drive to kill different? Is there a medicine or something to ease the urges or possibly stop the thoughts of killing?
ReplyDeleteI think, in the matter of whether he knew that the murder of other human beings is wrong, that the lines are blurred. Morality and a conscience is innate to the majority of us, but in Leon, it is not; he lacks the ability to understand others, to see them as anything other than objects. Because he is unable to experience love or genuine joy, it is conceivable that he would be unaware that others could experience such feelings -- humanity is a foreign concept to him, and taking life would therefore not seem to be something of consequence, merely something severely frowned upon by society. A fact such as this one is irrelevant to a true sociopath, like Leon. I think your questions are very interesting; a treatment for such a condition would likely be incredibly difficult to develop, but feasible nonetheless.
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ReplyDeletesuspicious
DeleteThose are great questions. I am wondering the same thing. Is rude comments the trigger to the urge to kill? It is very scary to think that there might be sociopaths close to us. I can say I've never thought that they could be so close to me before I read that article.
DeleteI agree that it is so scary thinking that sociopaths are around us in our daily lives. And based on what I know, I think the triggers that urge them to kill are any negative interaction or event that they perceive is directed at them. It is also interesting to me that depending on the sociopath, they carry out their urges to kill or they don't. I wonder if it is based on a differing severity of their condition or if it is their will to control it?
DeleteAfter reading this article there are many things that I have learned. I learned the difference between sociopaths and those of mental insanity. People who are mentally insane have no morals. They can’t differ right from wrong, however sociopaths can. They know what is socially acceptable behavior and what isn’t. Which is why Leon is diagnosed as a sociopath. Leon at the age of 16 murdered 2 younger girls and then proceeded to rape their corpses. Leon is indeed a perpetrator but also in some ways a victim. At a young age Leon was exposed to neglect and child abuse. Leon’s mother would leave Leon home alone for several hours at a time. His mother supposedly has a mental disorder which is the reason she did this. Leon’s lack of affection during most of the day led to him being unable to show empathy. He didn’t express emotion to things, and couldn’t feel remorse for anything that he has done. Dr. Perry asked Leon if he could take anything back what would it be? Expecting Leon to regret the previous crimes he had committed, he was was astonished when Leon's true regret was getting caught. (page 36) My question for my classmates would be, do you think Leon deserves maximum punishment? Do you think the Jury and the Judge should take pity on him for his past abuse and neglect? Can you find this story comparable to any others? The only other sociopath I can remember hearing about was a legend that my father use to share with me. It was about a man named Sirius. Sirius was suspected of being a sociopath, like Leon, and had committed many murders without showing remorse. Sirius later escaped prison never to be seen again. So what I think Leon should get life in prison like Sirius did.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Leon should get life in punishment. There are many factors that caused the behavior from Leon. He was neglected as a child leading him to violence to get his way. I wonder that if he was giving the proper attention would he have acted in such a horrific way? It amazes me that he does know what is right from wrong but has no feeling or guilt for the wrong he did.
DeleteI also agree that Leon should receive maximum punishment. His age should not matter, what he did is unacceptable for any age, even though he has a mental disorder. Some murderers are able to get away from punishment in pleading they are mentally insane. Leon knows what he did was wrong. He should not be able to say he is insane only to be set free to harm other innocent people.
DeleteI do also agree with you that life punishment is deserved by Leon, he is dangerous even though he does have a mental disorder. He did know that murder was wrong. He should not be able to plead insanity in any form due to the fact that he knew without a doubt that killing is wrong.
DeleteMaybe Leon's crime was a cry for help. Maybe he was struggling with his life situtaion and either knew he needed to be put away in order to protect other innocent people or to receive psychiatric help and treatment. We know he is highly intelligent and refuses to show emotion. Maybe this was his breaking point and his crime was maybe to help him instead of punishing him.
DeleteI think that Leon deserves maximum punishment. He did a have a horrible childhood, and I feel bad for him about that. However, he blew his chance at a normal life by killing 2 innocent young girls.
DeleteLeon may have killed two innocent young girls, and of course he deserves a harsh punishment. However, It may not have been Leon that "blew his chance a normal life". I think that the privilege of a normal life, was long taken from him. Leon did not choose to be raised the way he was, and the actions that he made were largely influenced by his childhood trauma.
DeleteI found both the story and the article astounding. They are both very interesting and powerful stories that really make you think. It’s so hard to imagine how someone can be so emotionally disconnected and careless of others. In the book, Leon does not care about how others feel. He , also, does not feel sorry for what he did. Is Leon really a victim? It’s hard to say. He is not insane. He knows the difference between right and wrong, but he has little self-control (due to his underdeveloped cortical regions of the brain). That is not his fault. Also, because he was under the influence, his actions were even harder for him to control. Leon was not born as a cold hearted person. He became this way because he was neglected as a child. His needs as an infant were not met, leading him to develop as an emotionless person.
ReplyDeleteIn the article, I found it interesting that the author (who was a sociopath as well) was able to control her actions more than Leon. Her thoughts however, were still violent and horrendous. From these past couple chapters, and this article, I have learned how one may become a sociopath or develop an anti-social personality disorder. I find it most interesting how the brain can do such a thing.
I do not believe anybody is born to kill; I believe it is caused by an underdeveloped brain, such as Leon’s, or that they are taught to believe that wrong behaviors are acceptable. I also think that if Leon’s mother would have had the help and support from family members and neighbors, like she had with Frank, she would not have neglected Leon. In return, Leon’s brain would have developed normally. I do not think Leon, especially as a 16 year-old boy, deserves the death penalty due to the emotional, social, cognitive, and neuropsychiatric problems he faces.
I think Leon is guilty for what he did and should have some type of punishment. I don't however agree that the death penalty is fair for him. There are many factors to consider in Leons case. One being at an early age he was neglected and learned that he only needed himself to survive. The way he was raised as an infant will forever affect his life.
DeleteThe brain is very different!!! Look up brain scans and you can see the lack of neural development on cases like this... What's hard to know is how much is a result to neglect and how much is based on what the brain was born to be..??? Biggest conflict in psychology is nature vs nurture
DeleteAfter reading the chapter and the article it made be open my eyes to how a sociopaths brain works. I find it amazing that sociopaths don't have many feelings and cannot have compassion towards others. At being only 16, Leon managed to murder two innocent girls and not feel any guilt. Leon being a sociopath does not give him an excuse for his actions because he does know whats right from wrong. My question is how can people like that not feel bad for doing something that horrific? Was Leon the only person to blame for his actions? Did his mother really think leaving an infant home alone all day was a good decision? I wonder if Leon wasn't exposed to neglect and child abuse early on would he have developed into a well behaved boy.
ReplyDeleteIn the article I found it interesting that the author who was also a sociopath was able to control her actions. She still had horrific and violent thoughts but never acted out in that way. When diagnosed as a sociopath I learned that not every person has the same symptoms and the brain makeup looks different with each person.
No person is ever born to kill. I do however believe that a way a child is raised has a major affect on their future. If all the child is exposed to in their early years is violence they will grow up thinking that is the only way they can get what they want. They will find nothing wrong with it and think it is acceptable. For people like Leon is there any help they can get once they are that damaged?
it makes me wonder how some sociopaths are able to control their reactions to situations while others have no self control whatsoever. It amuses me how two brains can develop so differently even having the same or very similar mental disorders.
DeleteGreat questions! There is not a lot we can do to guarantee a comets reversal of a rain wiring later in life. Leon will have to do a lot of behavioral response therapy but remember a personality disorder is just that, personality! How much of your personality can you change? How much do you realize about your personality influencing behavior?
DeleteHumans can be so heartless and I never understood why. I assumed they were not given the same love that I had received throughout my life. It turns out that I was somewhat correct.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the chapter and the article, I learned how sociopaths become what they are. Both Leon and the attorney had a parent that wasn't ideal. Leon's mother had left him alone in a dark apartment for hours a day while the woman in the article had an abusive father. I believe that how a child is parented heavily impacts how they turn out as adults. I do not go to say that every child with an abusive or neglecting parent turns out to be a sociopath, but the majority of sociopaths grew up in a less-than-ideal environment.
I was watching a show just last night about a married couple who went on a killing spree for their honeymoon. The victims were all killed in a gas station- the wife's father owned a gas station. The couple each had a father that sexually abused them. They wanted revenge.
I learned from the chapter and the article that sociopaths want their actions to be justified to no wrong doing. Somebody hurt them, they believe it is right and fair to get revenge.
I do not think people are born to kill. People do not just wake up one day and decide to kill. They almost always have a reason that they believe to be legitimate, whether it be a tough upbringing or a horrific life event. Leon for example. Although it does not seem like an event such as his mother leaving him in the dark apartment would turn him into a teenage killer, it did. Leon was never able to rely on his mother, so he had to rely on himself. He did whatever he needed to to be able to make himself happy. He did not care what others may have felt from his actions because he was selfish by all means. I can't make up my mind about whether Leon is a victim in any way or not. He is in that he had been neglected as a baby, but not in the way he killed and then raped the two young girls. He wants people to think he is the victim because the girls had promised him something they couldn't keep. Leon makes me the most angry because he manipulates people. There is no clear explanation for what he did other than that he got upset and reacted as a sociopath might.
My question is why some children turn into killers while others simply manipulate people without killing or harming them. What developed differently in their brain that makes them react so differently?
That's sort of the whole sociopath vs. psychopath debate. A sociopath is usually someone more of Leon's description. A killer made by his upbringing. Disorganized, extremely impulsive, can't put on a front. While the lady in the article would be more of a psychopath. They're usually the way they are due to chemical imbalances in the brain and genetics. They're more commonly known for their charming personalities.
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ReplyDeleteJust from the chapter and the article anyone can be a sociopath but not all of them kill. Leon and the person from the article both grew up in abusive homes, but Leon actually murdered two young girls. Why is it that some sociopaths are more likely to kill and some aren’t? In the chapter, Leon’s parents played a huge part in how he ended up in prison; he didn’t get the right love and affection that a baby should have gotten. I do believe that Leon should get the death penalty because for the fact of he had no remorse for what he had done, and all he actually cared about was getting caught. Leon knew what he had done and he had known the consequences but he didn’t care. The article surprised me, I learned that sociopaths could be anyone around you and you would probably never know it, they can be very successful people. I don’t think people are born killers; it’s their environment that makes them killers.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question, I think it might have something to do with how severe the abuse was or how underdeveloped that part of the brain is in the individual. The article also surprised me because a sociopath could be right next to you, trying to manipulate you any way they can, and you would never know. I completely agree with your last statement. I don't think anybody is born to kill or born a sociopath, some children are abused while their brains are still developing. The abuse may be so severe during a certain part of the brain's development, the child may grow up to become a sociopath.
DeleteI agree with most of the above. I also agree that the extent of the neglect or abuse plays a role in how severe the outcome may be. However, I disagree with the death penalty statement. Leon is incapable of feeling guilty or having remorse. He is emotionless, and that is not his fault. He may know it is wrong, but he does not fully understand how it affects others, or how it makes them feel.
DeleteWhat I found most interesting about the chapter and article was that in the beginning of reading each one, when you hear about what crimes the people committed, you think less of them. We automatically assume that they can't be human to commit the crimes or murders that they did. You think that it is sickening that someone could do that, yet you refrain from searching deeper. We seem content just sticking with our idea of people and what they did because that's what we think makes sense to us. When I read Leon's story I found him repulsive, the fact that he could murder two girls and not even care, yet as we see Dr. Perry dig deeper you see that there was more to the story. Leon's childhood wasn't an easy one and that affected the way he felt and acted and in turn affect his future. He did what seemed to be acceptable to him because he didn't receive enough care as a child. I just found that our perception about things might change if we dig deeper and find the answers. Did your perception of Leon change? Did you always think he was a monster?
ReplyDeleteI agree that Leon's crime was brutal and I question whether he can be rehabilitated but we need to look at the big picture and realize he is the way he is from circumstances beyond his control. It is a sad ending for everyone involved.
DeleteI didn't think he was always a monster but after the incident I have a different look at Leon now. He ha changed in many different ways and for him to do that it is just frightening that people can act like that.
DeleteI think you made a very good point when you stated that we tend to judge the situation before we learn more about it. My perception of Leon did change. However, I still think that Leon could have controlled his actions and refrained from killing. Knowing his whole story and the background information of his disease just better helps me understand why he did it.
DeleteAs I read and compared both the chapter and the article, I learned that the brain is a powerful thing. In both pieces we were introduced to two different sociopaths with no prior history of physical abuse. However, they both received plenty of emotional abuse. As an infant Leon was left alone for whole days without anyone there to feed, hold, rock him or provide him any care or love. In the article written by M.E. Thomas, the girl described her father as voilent and her mother as sometimes hysterical. Both of the sociopaths had their parents present in their lives but not in the way normal children experience parenthood. It was also very clear that sociopaths have shallow emotions and little or no remorse for their actions. For example, when Dr. Perry was interviewing Leon in prison he asked about the crime he committed. At first Leon showed little sympathy but the more Dr. Perry asked Leon to decribe what happened during his crime the less violent Leon made the story. Dr. Perry also asked Leon if he could change something about that day what would it have been. Leon's response was to throw away the boots that got him caught and nothing more. After reading the chapter and the article, I think it is clear that sociopaths are not always dumb, undereducated people. In the article, the girl was a succesful lawyer and stated she vacationed the whole week in Mexico before she took her bar exam. She passed from barely studying while others failed who studied for eight continuous weeks. While in the chapter, Leon's IQ was above average and he scored high in his performance score. It was also stated how sociopaths are selfish and only see humans as moving objects and nothing else. The girl controlled her violent urges and I personally think Leon would have too if it wasn't for the alcohol he consumed moments before he killed and raped the two young girls. At this stage in Leon's life, I wonder if anybody will be able to teach him self love so that he may feel remorse for his crime? I believe every person that is dealing with a "difficulty" has a breaking point where they can no longer continue doing so, I wonder what that breaking point is and if the girl in the article will be able to endure it?
ReplyDeleteI think that Leon is so emotinally damaged that he will never be able to feel love or respect for other people even with much therapy. I too agree that everyone has a breaking point and wonder when or if the girl in the article will ever have a breaking point
DeleteI believe that Leon will never be able to make the connections in his brain needed to create real and powerful relationships. No matter how much anyone tries to teach him he will never know the feeling of real love because his mother could never provide it to him in the first place. This just shows how important early development is when it comes to the rest of the child's adult life.
DeleteI also wonder what causes a sociopath to be at their breaking point where they kill? I wonder if a person is able to move past it and try developing human emotions...
DeleteThis chapter really amazed me. To think a 16 year old boy killed and raped two young girls with no care or emotion. Leon as well as the article showed how sociopaths don’t have much feeling. If you look at their childhood it sometimes shows how they got to be the way they are. For example, Leon was not cared for when he was an infant. Maria, Leon’s mother, would leave him at home when he was crying and go for a walk with her older son Frank while her husband was at work. That’s when Leon realized that he wouldn’t get any love or affection when he would cry. Maria needed her families help caring for the child. She didn’t know how to care for a child on her own. She got help with Frank but when they moved it was much more difficult for her to deal with Leon. I don’t understand how anyone could leave their child alone with no one to care for them. It said in the book that his mother had some kind of mental illness and I do believe that she is part of the reason Leon is who he is but his father should have known what she was doing was wrong. However, if Leon was put around normal peers instead of with a negative peer group it would’ve helped him as well. I guess his parents made the decision to put him there but someone should’ve been there to tell her what would be the smarter choice. I also wonder how some sociopaths, like Leon, kill people and others don’t. Can some hold back urge to kill? Does it make a difference with what kind of childhood they had growing up? Reading the article surprised me. People that don’t have any emotion to anything that happens to them. That is a horrible way to live. That’s when I wonder is there anything that someone could do to help them through life?
ReplyDeletei feel like every type of person that is a sociopath has a different type of urge and different type of way to hold back that urge. I also find it hard to comprehend how someone could leave their baby in a dark room for most of the day
DeleteI agree. What could they have done to help Maria care for Leon? Was her husband even aware of what she was doing or how she was caring for Leon? He should have sought for help knowing Maria's conditions and knowing how much she relied on her family to help her care for Frank.
DeleteI think that the type of environment you grow up in greatly shapes who you are. I think our parents show us the way we either want to be, or don't want to be.
DeleteBoth the article and the chapter created numerous thoughts and questions as I read them. I found it hard to wrap my head around these true stories and that people can actually feel such little emotion. The chapter and article taught me many new things. The chapter really showed me how cold and emotionless a sociopath can be. The article taught me that not all sociopaths or people with antisocial personality disorder are always as extreme as Leon. It helped me understand that they can live a rather normal life, other than the lack of emotion and dark thoughts. The odd thing is these people don't consider their thoughts dark, what they think about is so normal to them because they really don't care about other's feelings or emotions at all.
ReplyDeleteMultiple things caught my attention as I read the chapter and the article. First of all, the article shared the statistic that 1 in every 25 people is a sociopath, which seems like such a high number. Although many of them lead normal lives among us and aren't as violent as Leon, it's frightening to think that there are people around us with such dark, menacing thoughts, waiting to manipulate people. It's likely they will never act on those thoughts, but it's hard to imagine lacking that much emotion. One of the things that caught my attention in the chapter was Leon's ability to mimic behavior, and he always found a way to escape the situations he got himself into. Even when he received some form of minor punishment, the only thing he learned was a new and improved way to deceive people so he could work his way out the next time.
Still on the subject of Leon's ability to mimic behavior, there was one question I kept asking myself throughout the reading. Why could he learn to mimic behaviors so well but was never able to learn and develop emotions? I understand his brain missed that critical period when he was younger, but is it possible that he could have just developed emotions and feelings a little later in life and at a slower rate?
The older the brain gets the harder it is to re train... Neglect and violence on an child's brain wires responses differently! To think what you say and show kids doesn't have
DeletePersonally, I find the principles of sociopathy as presented in the chapter and the article quite interesting. After reading both the chapter and the article, I have learned that the two most evident red flags of sociopathy are manipulative tendencies and a lack of empathy – complete indifference to consequences and traditional morals, as well as the lack of inherent knowledge of others’ feelings. It is now evident to me that sociopaths must be made and not born; sociopathy, while perhaps being caused partially by genetics, it is mostly the early environment that determines whether or not one will develop sociopathic tendencies. For example, in examining Leon’s family history, Dr. Perry discovers that his mother is mentally impaired and, deprived of her family’s support by distance, was overwhelmed by the demands of a colicky newborn. Maria left her baby alone for long periods of time during his early infancy. Baby Leon was subjected to “systematic neglect” (Perry 111), and as a result, the developing lower regions of his brain failed to develop adequate associations between people and pleasure, leaving him utterly devoid of basic empathy. From what Ms. Thomas writes of her upbringing, it can be deduced that she may have suffered similar neglect; she states that she “was the middle child in a family with a violent father and an indifferent, sometimes hysterical, mother,” suggesting that her parents may have been absent in a manner similar to the way Leon’s parents were. While the tragedy of Leon is diametrically opposed to the relatively normal life that M. E. Thomas has led, Ms. Thomas has herself noted that being handcuffed at the age 16 was “easy to imagine.” Some questions come to mind almost instantly in reading the chapter and the article – Ms. Thomas is a middle child, and Leon has a brother. What made them so different from their siblings? Leon, as was documented in the chapter, had a very different infancy than his brother due to the presence of an extended family. Ms. Thomas, however, offers no information to suggest that her upbringing might have differed in any way from that of her siblings; it would be interesting to delve deeper into the genetic aspect of sociopathy, or even the neurophysiological particularities of the early development of sociopaths. Something else that seems odd about sociopaths – from the chapter and the article, of course – is their apparent proclivity to causing pain in others; Ms. Thomas seems to be acutely in tune to what her father despises, she intuitively knows how to cause another woman pain – by stealing of man of mutual interest – she fantasizes about brutally inflicting pain upon a man who offended her. Leon knows how to cause his classmates, teachers, and parents pain. Both are seen as very manipulative individuals, and to have the ability to manipulate another, one must first understand their fellow people. The condition of sociopathy is itself an inability to empathize with others and understand their feelings, as well as to form genuine relationship. The neurological workings of such a condition must therefore be quite interesting – how does early development discriminate between the ability to understand others’ joy and fear? This might be the wrong question to ask. The appropriate question might ask, how do neurological systems allowing us to understand others’ pain and happiness develop? Could there be different degrees, “levels,” per se, of sociopathy, depending on which of these systems are affected? Could this be why Leon became the murderer of two young girls while Ms. Thomas is a functional and productive member of her community?
ReplyDeleteWhat I found most interesting about both the chapter and the article is the whole concept of people not being able to empathize or feel. I can’t seem to be able to wrap my mind around the fact that there are people able to murder, and feel no guilt, fear of consequences, or any fear at all really. I believe that nurture has a significantly more profound effect than nature, and feel that in Leon’s case, he would most likely be a very different person today, and probably never killed those innocent girls, had his mother been able to provide the care that Leon needed as an infant. It leads me to wonder if a person with a loving, caring home, with no neglect, or abuse can still become a sociopath? How much of an impact do genes really have? Are certain people just wired to become sociopaths?
ReplyDeleteGood questions! It's both! We r wired and our environment shape us. Brain scans show differences in sociopath.. Also personality disorders are hard to determine many people have odd personalities but the uncaring no remorse is considered abnormal and disturbing to our culture so disorder label results. Most murders do feel bad and have regrets, but depending on individuals you will find some who have no emotion wiring to care
DeleteI think that people are wired to become sociopaths; however, I believe that it is our environments that controls the extremity of a sociopath's actions. Whether or not the situation they are prompted with holds the ability to destroy something the sociopath cares about will depict their actions. If a sociopath doesn't care that they will be sent to prison due to the fact they wouldn't be leaving anyone they loved or cared about or anything they've worked hard for, there is nothing stopping them from committing the crime if it pleases them.
DeleteI think it is interesting that both Leon and the person in the article see other people as moving objects whose only purpose is to be manipulated. It seems like Leon is much more of a sociopath than the the person in the article. While she only thought about killing people, Leon actually did murder 2 young girls. I'm still blown away by the fact that Leon did that and then raped them when he was only 16. I could never imagine doing something like that. I learned that many people (1 in 25) are sociopaths, although most aren't as violent as Leon. Most sociopaths can live a relatively normal life, with the exception of having dark thoughts. It seems like the childhood has an effect on how extreme the sociopath will become. The person in the article had a normal childhood and wasn't a very violent sociopath, while Leon was alone for most of his childhood and ended up killing and raping 2 people. And after all of that he didn't even care that he had hurt anyone. He only cared about himself. I think that it is partly Leon's fault for the murders, but also his mom's fault for leaving him alone all day, and his dad's fault for not doing anything about it. What makes someone become a sociopath? Leon was a victim of child abuse, but the person in the article wasn't, yet they both ended up a sociopaths.
ReplyDeleteWhat creates anyone's personality? Part is genetic part is environment... Personality disorders are disturbing as why they are labeled disorders
DeleteI also thought it was interesting and kind of scary how these individuals view other people. I agree with you that it's hard to imagine someone who is so young committing such an unforgivable crime. Your question is difficult to answer because, as you pointed out, there are obviously multiple ways people become sociopaths. The only thing I can think of is their brain somehow missed important factors while that part of their brain was developing.
ReplyDeleteLeon and the girl are very similar and both their situations are very scary. Both individuals parents were there in the child's childhood and raised them but they were not very active in their lives. They never had physical abuse but the emotional abuse did take a hit on their personalities. The difference between these two was that the girl in the article controlled her urges while Leon did not. Even if Leon was under the influence of alchohol he still could not control his urge like the girl did. The both of them had insanely high IQ's compared to a normal person. In the article the girl is lawyer and she vacationed before her exam but others in her school studied weeks before and still failed. Leon also scored extremely high on his performance score. What causes someone to become a sociopath? How did the girl in the article control her urges while others could not?
ReplyDeleteI also wonder how the girl in the article could control herself. Its scary to think that anyone we see could be a sociopath controlling themselves, just like her.
DeleteLeon is a 16 year old boy that killed and raped two girls. He did not feel anything for what he had done. The article and the chapter show that sociopaths do not have feelings. I think it is crazy that Leon's mother would leave him alone in their apartment and I don't understand how any mother could do that to their child. The mother's mental illness probably led to Leon's. I think Leon might have been more normal if he had received more love and affection as a child. I do not think sitting in jail or putting him up for the death penalty would make him realize what he did was wrong. He does not have feelings for what he did. It amazed me towards the end of the chapter when Leon asked why the families of the girls he killed were crying because he was the one going to jail. Since he doesn't have feelings, he probably thinks that other people don't either, and he doesn't even understand why people cry in sad situations. It is also amazing that so many sociopaths live around us even if they don't kill people. We may never even realize we are around a sociopath. What made Leon want to kill these girls? Is there any help for someone who has become this damaged?
ReplyDeleteI think you're right about Leon, and sociopaths in general, not understanding how others can have feelings -- as Dr. Perry mentions in the chapter, "their inability to empathize is a difficulty with mirroring the feelings of others coupled with a lack of compassion for them" (Perry 116). You last question is very interesting; a remedial treatment for underdeveloped regions of the brain is under intense scientific focus, as such a treatment could have wide-ranging effects for individuals with many different conditions, not such antisocial personality disorder.
DeleteFrom what I gathered from the article and the chapter, I'd say the answer to your question is a little bit of both -- likely some genetic factors (nature), but with early environment also playing an enormous role in the child's development as a sociopath, although perhaps not in the crimes themselves. As the article showed, it is quite possible for sociopaths to restrain themselves and remain nonviolent, productive members of society.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really sure how seriously I take the article. I've also seen the Dr. Phil episode Renee mentioned earlier and after viewing that and reading this I believe the woman who wrote it has more narcissistic tendencies than sociopathic or psychopathic ones. It just sounds sort of like bragging to me. I do believe that Leon, the 16 year old boy who murdered 2 teenage girls and then raped their bodies is a sociopath/psychopath. During his childhood his mother lacked the resources needed to produce a childhood similar to his brother and often left him neglected. His dad was also very busy with work. As a result, love and affection were somewhat foreign concepts to Leon, which is to be expected. However, there are of course, very many children who not only faced neglect but also abuse as a child, and turned out to be fairly good members of society. I think this is less about nurture and more about nature, though his childhood did most likely have a part in it. There are probably several socio/psychopaths who had a warm homelife and loving parents, thought they're probably a bit more rare. I wonder how genetics play a role in these kinds of personalities.
ReplyDeleteI think some people have very sick mind sets, even when they're young, however, I don't think anyone is born a killer. As a 16 year old, if you kill someone, you definitely know the consequences and should be held to the same repercussions as adults. Leon is a victim of neglect, most definitely, although his parents aren't 100% at fault. It's crazy to think that his brother can be so "normal" and successful yet Leon didn't turn out that way even when they were raised by the same parents. I believe neglect had a major impact on the way Leon grew up and the way his brain developed. It aggravates me that his mom and dad don't think the way they handled him being a grumpy baby was wrong. They went on with their story as if they didn't do anything wrong, but if they would've parented him the same way that they parented Frank, I don't think he would be where he's at today.
ReplyDeleteLeon was a child who violently murdered and raped two innocent girls. Honestly, I can't even comprehend the cold heart that Leon must carry. He doesn't even have any emotion when explaining the story, both true and false, of murdering two young women. It is almost as if nothing happened and nothing is his fault. It amazes me how clueless the parents are also. I mean yes, the mom may have a slight form of autism, but the dad, he is a perfectly healthy human and he couldn't see what was happening right under his nose? That is unbelievable. Leon was so neglected as a child that none of this really is his fault. Yes, he should know the consequences of his actions and should pay better attention, but he still was born and raised poorly. He may have brutally killed and raped two innocent girls, but I still feel bad for him and what he went through. It is crazy how much pre-adolescent growing affects your long-term health and well-being.
ReplyDeleteThe girl on the article reminds me like Leon as well just without the violence. I feel like if she had gotten that man alone in an alley, she would have killed him without question. How can a person even think about harming another human being? Why can't parents just raise their kids without neglect and harm? Is it so hard to not be physical with your children or to hold your child once in a while? I don't think it is.
While I am saying that I feel bad for these people, they still should know the consequences of their actions. Even if Leon grew up in a dysfunctional family, he should still know the difference between right and wrong. It said in the chapter that he did, he just felt like it needed to be done anyways. This is very similar to the girl in the article also because she knew that murder and physical actions were morally wrong, but she still couldn't stop thinking of them and diabolically planning her enemies' demise. I am overly amazed at the amount of under-parenting in both of these scenarios. It is almost fully their fault for creating a sociopath.
I have to disagree with it being entirely their fault for Leon's outcome... I feel like genetics had a lot more to do with it. Many people with worse situations as children don't go out and kill/rape young girls.
DeleteI agree with Toni with the fact that the parents were not entirely to blame; although, they are to blame for 95% of what was wrong with Leon. Leon possessed the genes of a sociopath, his environment was what caused the extremity of his sociopathic personality. For all we know Leon's brother, Frank, is a sociopath and has thoughts of beating people senseless; however, he cares about the differences between what is right and what is wrong and knows not to beat people up for fun. If Leon's parents had raised him the same as they did Frank, chances are that Leon would have wound up leading the same life style as Frank.
DeleteThis whole book has taught me that early development can make or break a person's life as they grow older. It amazed me when she stated the fact about how many sociopaths there actually are and it was crazy knowing that they actually are not uncommon. It was also nice to know that not all of them are violent just like you said. I'm glad she could tell her story with clean hands.
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ReplyDeleteI found this chapter extremely interesting. I was amused by the way the two brothers were so different. Leon had a poor upraising and eventually led him to make a poor decision. I found it most interesting in the chapter to how some poor upraising can cause children to be more sensitive and stressed, while others lead to numbness. In Leon's position he is numbed and fears and feels nothing. In the article the writer explained that she, like Leon, was a sociopath. This leads me to believe that although Leon had a tough upraising, he could have controlled his urge to kill. It was very interesting to me to see how the writer of the article could so easily discuss her disease. The way that the writer explained sociopaths way of manipulating from first hand experiences, was fascinating. What is the difference between the two? If the writer were to be raised differently do you think she would have ended up in the same place as Leon? Do you think that Leon should face the death penalty? I do not think so because although he made the decision to kill, it was not his decision to be raised the way he was, therefor leading him to a life of sociopathy.
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting how Leon’s IQ was very high, and his ability to read social situations and understand other people’s intentions. Also that a split between verbal and performance scores is often seen in abused or traumatized children. These tests results were the first clues that something had probably gone wrong in his early childhood. I also found it very odd that Leon’s brother, Frank was the complete opposite of him. He was happy and living a very successful life. Leon and Frank grew up with the same parents so how could they end up so differently? The living situation described in the book between where they lived when frank was a toddler and where they lived when Leon was a toddler was extremely different. Frank grew up in a living situation with a lot of family and love. Leon grew up with a lot of loneness and stress. Then it became clear why Leon and Frank were so different. Frank got more attention from his parents therefor he was more emotionally attached to them so he never wanted to feel the pain of disappointing them. But as for Leon, if he disappointed his parents he felt no emotion because he didn’t have the same connection with them as Frank did. If you look at the situation closely you realize that it was the bad parenting that leads Leon to make his bad decisions.
ReplyDeleteWhat interested me was the fact the Leon had no emotion and showed no remorse after killing the two girls. The response he gave Dr.Perry when asked what he would have done differently is truthfully disgusting that he really felt nothing at all and just wished he wouldn't have gotten caught. I do however understand how Leon ended up the way he did it is sad that any mother finds it okay just to leave their infant child alone at anytime fussy or not. Every little thing Leon went through pointed to a bad future for him.
ReplyDeleteThe article was interesting to me and showed a point of view on sociopaths that a person with out such disorders can not really understand and would never even know about if not shared. The woman that writes her story talks about her childhood and says she was not a victim of abuse of neglect, but she makes it sound different. When she describes her father punching threw the door makes him sound a little crazy and raises doubt about weather she grew up in a normal family or not.
Both of these stories really make me think about the parenting behind them and to me seems to be more nurture than nature. These kids' world as they grow up gets turned upside down and they aren't really shown how really loving parents act. Has all of this bad in the world come form such a young age? Do you think there is a way to prevent children from becoming sociopaths? Or is it really all genetic?
I found it very interesting how parenting has a lasting effect on a child. I believe that all children are born good but through their upbringing they can stray from what is considered normal. Without the proper care as an infant, the baby does not develop emotions such as love and compassion. Without emotions sociopaths are able to do terrible things because they feel nothing, no remorse, no guilt, no anything. I question how a parent can leave their child home alone all day and then wonder why he did not turn out normal.
ReplyDeleteLeon showed no remorse for killing and raping two girls. He showed no emotion at all. I wonder how someone can feel nothing? The differences between Leon and Frank also surprised me but looking at the early stages of their lives and how different their situations were helps to prove the point that sociopaths are made not born. The article helped me to understand that not all sociopaths go out to do horrible things and are not as extreme of a case as Leon. The writer calmly explained her disease. She was able to shed light on how sociopaths manipulate from her point of view which I found fascinating.
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ReplyDeleteOne in every 25 people are sociopaths. Wow, I never considered the fact that sociopaths are so common. Your best friend could be a sociopath without either of you ever having a clue. Society defines a sociopath as an outwardly deranged and violent criminal; by definition a person doesn’t need to be a criminal to be a sociopath. This article helped me realize this; without the first hand experiences from this author, I would not have been able to realize the reality of this mentality.
ReplyDeleteThe article makes me think, what if Leon had born with a sociopathic mentality? What if the neglect was what pushed him over the edge into psychopath killer? As the author explains in the article, maybe if they had grown up in a more abusive house hold, her violent thoughts would be her reality? Maybe if Leon felt that there was someone’s love or something important to him that he could lose, he wouldn’t commit his violent thoughts nor would he feel as guiltless as he did.
the what if in this book are endless however I don't think people are born sociopaths. I will agree that there may be some genetics involved that make it more likely for one to be a sociopath but, it seems that something must have happened in the past for them to be one. I do believe the neglect and more so the snowball affect after that is what made him into a psychopathic killer.
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